Re: Copying files -- Win10 laptop to Android cellphone

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 18, 2023, 5:06:14 PM1/18/23

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Carlos E.R.

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Jan 18, 2023, 6:10:31 PM1/18/23

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On 2023-01-18 23:06, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Newyana2 wrote:
>
>> I've tried asking this in the Android group. No answers.
>
> That's a lie.
> It's so easy to prove you lied, that I wonder why you bothered.

I checked. He is saying the truth. He got two non-answers from two chaps.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 18, 2023, 6:16:48 PM1/18/23

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VanguardLH wrote:

> The thread in the Android newsgroup mentioned how to enable Developer
> mode, and then go into Developer Options to enable USB debugging to use
> a USB cable between PC and Android phone.

I'm going to take interest in this thread because I've tried _every_
suggested (free) method (login free, ad free too) for cross platform
copying between Linux and/or Windows and or iOS and/or Android.

To wit, above is a valid point by VanguardLH where the only thing I'll
correct is that the thread by the OP in the Android ng didn't cover that
topic - but - Vanguard is 100% correct that there _is_ a thread that did
cover it there.

*Do you turn USB Debugging on the instant you get a new phone?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/c8b0FRvALmo>

The option in question is called "Default USB configuration" on my phone.

It's in the last screen of the "devopt02" developer options image below:
<https://i.postimg.cc/28324Hdp/devopt01.jpg> Settings > Developer options
<https://i.postimg.cc/PrqFSfjR/devopt02.jpg> Useful devoptions switches
<https://i.postimg.cc/7LzRSBkP/devopt03.jpg> More devoptions switches
<https://i.postimg.cc/DZFxLn65/devopt04.jpg> Even more devoptions switches
<https://i.postimg.cc/3N8zZ1vt/devopt05.jpg> Turning Developer Options on
<https://i.postimg.cc/jSB0rypj/devopt06.jpg> Press Build number 7 times

The OP will also need the correct drivers which Google will point him to.

> You don't mention here doing
> those steps. Once USB debug mode is enabled on the phone, it appears as
> a USB mass storage device to Windows. You might have to check if your
> phone is configured to use its USB port in PTP or MTP mode.

I think the OP needs to tell us if he's installed the drivers for the
phone. Yes, I know they're normally automatically installed.

But then why isn't the device showing up?

It would be nice if the OP would spend ten seconds to snap a screenshot,
but I know how it is with this kind of OP (which is why I sensed a troll).

>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_Transfer_Protocol
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol
>
> I suspect you need to use MTP mode.
>
> I believe (without having to hunt for the other newsgroup thread)

I provided the links.
Plus I gave him the search terms.
He didn't even respond.

He simply lied by saying nobody responded, which is, again, why I suspect a
troll so I'm not going to spend more than the two hours I already did on
trying to help the guy until and unless he shows he's not a troll by using
some initiative.

> that
> web sync was available, like Google Drive, OneDrive, or other such
> services: you sync your devices to your online account, so the devices
> also sync to each other. There are both Windows and Android sync
> clients. Yes, since they use a web-based service to do the sync, you
> will need an account to which the local clients connect.

I've done _every_ method ever suggested on these newsgroups (Linux and
Windows and Android and iOS) and the simplest, by far, IMHO, is what you
said earlier, which is MTP:USB with the correct drivers.

If servers are involved, then that's useful for Wi-Fi where FTPUse works
for Frank Slootweg to mount Android as a read/write drive letter over Wi-Fi
or USB onto Windows but I find that WebDAV works better to mount Android as
a read/write drive letter on Windows over Wi-Fi.

Frank is the expert on FTPUse.
I use WebDAV all day, every day.

I also mirror the phone onto Windows so that you can just _slide_ an APK
from Windows over to the image on Android and it installs that APK.

It just works.

>
> By the way, did you intend to nearly forge Mayayana's nym with this one?

It doesn't sound like Mayayana, but it could be. Dunno.
Mayayana is a peculiar creature but this OP hasn't responded except once to
ask on Android and then once here to lie about it so I don't think that
there's any evidence that it's mayayana at this point in time.

Seems to me mostly just a troll, and in general, what you get are the Apple
trolls (usually Alan Baker nyms) who come up with a concocted problem that
they will give up on all too soon and claim it just works on the iPhone.

Or, it's micky who, for whatever reason, makes stuff up and then keeps
throwing in strange hurdles that nobody else ever has - but I can't say for
sure.

Hell, people claim almost everyone who posts is me, so I can't be doing the
same thing to them. :)

If the guy is serious, I'll help him - since I know this stuff inside and
out - but I haven't seen ANY evidence of that yet.

>
>> What am I missing?
>
> That if USB debug mode via USB cable doesn't work that you're stuck with
> online services which require an account to use them.

That's a lousy solution to a problem that none of us have which is he plugs
the phone into the PC and the PC recognizes it and installs generic
drivers.

If he wants to, he can install the manufacturer specific drivers.
Then the phone is recognized as long as the phone is set up for MTP, which
they are by default nowadays in my experience (but who knows tracfones?).

Not me.
I know motorola, samsung, lg and nexus, but not tracfone
(whatever that is).

> If you are
> paranoid about the service having a copy of your files whether online or
> during transit between endpoint hosts then you should be encrypting them
> on your hosts. You could encrypt them individually, or dump them into
> an encryption container, like use TrueCrypt.

There's no way this OP is gonna deal with encryption Vanguard if just
plugging in a USB cable is already too complicated for him.

He didn't even tell us if he has an sd card, which, if he uses that, solves
his problem immediately as he can get an adaptor that he can plug his phone
into that can allow him to display the phone on the monitor and manage the
phone with his mouse and keyboard, all of which are plugged into that same
USB-C adaptor (which is covered on the Android newsgroup over here I
think).
*Broken screen - interact with phone over USB-C to HDMI & get data off it?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/hMgchU9ZvZM/m/grnpjsYwBgAJ>

Check it out. No PC needed at all. Just the monitor, keyboard, & mouse!

Who needs USB debugging after all! :)
--
Note that the Windows newsgroup is not archived - but the Android ng is.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 18, 2023, 6:21:32 PM1/18/23

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Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> That's a lie.
>> It's so easy to prove you lied, that I wonder why you bothered.
>
> I checked. He is saying the truth. He got two non-answers from two chaps.

Hi Carlos,

Why do you _always_ prove me right?
You can _never_ add any technical value to any thread.

You've _never_ been able to add technical value in your entire life,
Carlos. It's why everyone you know has been calling you stupid.

To wit...

Please post, in its entirety, the two non answers here Carlos.

If you don't, then it proves you're not only stupid, but you're a liar too.

Post them in your next response - both of them (and yes, I see the second
one only because I looked on Google groups and it was from Joerg Lorenz who
has about the same IQ as you do, Carlos).

Post it or admit you lied, Carlos.
Some of us are actually trying to help this OP troll.

But you can't.
You're too stupid.

And you're proving me right Carlos.
You've _never_ been able to answer a technical question in your entire life

Post it.

Newyana2

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Jan 18, 2023, 7:50:46 PM1/18/23

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"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote

| I checked. He is saying the truth. He got two non-answers from two chaps.
|

Strange. I don't see any answers at all. I checked on AIOE, just
in case. No answers there. Maybe they were people I block. ("Andy
Burnelli" is also someone I block.) I never used to block anyone, but
I got tired of nonsense and rudeness, like this one telling me I'm
a liar.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 18, 2023, 8:56:12 PM1/18/23

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Newyana2 wrote:

> Strange. I don't see any answers at all. I checked on AIOE, just
> in case. No answers there. Maybe they were people I block. ("Andy
> Burnelli" is also someone I block.) I never used to block anyone, but
> I got tired of nonsense and rudeness, like this one telling me I'm
> a liar.

Classic Alan Baker...

I knew, from the start, this thread had the hallmark of the iKooks.
*Moving files* by Newyana2
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/MFjtFd_f430>
And...
*Copying files -- Win10 laptop to Android cellphone*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/LbhmR25ySTQ>

1. We've established beyond any reasonable doubt this thread is a troll.
2. We've also established this "new" poster is a brazen liar.
3. Based on this troll's history, it's doubtful the troll even has an
Android, as this thread fit the Alan Baker pattern from the get go.

Here's the classic Alan Baker approach... which, by the way, he used
today and yesterday in this thread, so it's easy to show the iKook MO:
*find my car*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/VYqRnd9t6dM>

Notice what transpired on the _android_ newsgroup (not Apple! Android):
A. Someone asked a question
B. Ten people responded, nine of whom posted rather detailed help
C. One though, Alan Baker, merely posted this, as his first "help"
"Sure! It's called an iPhone!
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/VYqRnd9t6dM/m/pVVUGbCxDQAJ>
D. Then Alan posted yet again his iPhone propaganda to Android threads:
"Or you get an iPhone... "
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/VYqRnd9t6dM/m/BS3p60LnDQAJ>

Notice the iKooks _hate_ that Android isn't crippled like iOS is.
So they post that drivel which is _never_ intended to be helpful.

The same thing happened in this thread, ostensibly about "copying files".

1. Alan Baker creates a new nym & posts a defeatist Android post;
2. In that defeatist message body, he claims nothing works on Android;
3. At the first chance he gets, he brings in that iOS just works;
4. He repeats this propaganda, daily (which is the iKook MO).

Happens all the time.
It's what these iKooks do.

Do you know why?
I do.

The iKooks all suffer from the same abnormal maladies:
a. They're all of low IQ and almost no formal education to speak of
b. As a result, they're incapable of processing facts like most adults
c. They _believe_ everything Apple says - to the point of cult religion

The problem is that the iPhone is basically like Santa Claus.
And the iKooks are basically like fifth grade held-back low-IQ bullies.

Here's how almost all factual conversations go with these iKooks:
iKook: Santa exists. And he's great! Free gifts on Christmas for the world!
Adult: No it doesn't exist. It's impossible for Apple's claim to be true.
iKook: But I saw Santa at the mall Apple Store. You didn't see him! I did!
Adult: That was just a clever marketing trick; it's an Apple marketing gimmick.
iKook: No. You are wrong! It _was_ Santa. I saw him. You are a dumb fuck (JR)
Adult: Unfortunately, I repeat: Santa is just a marketing gimmick son.
iKook: Liar! You are a dumb fuck. You are a dick head. ftfy (nospam hallmark)
Adult: How could it possibly be that Santa can fly through the sky like that?
iKook: He does! Apple has a whitepaper on it. Apple said it was so! It's real!
Adult: That's just clever Apple marketing, son. Sorry Santa doesn't exist.
iKook: You are an idiot and a troll and a dickhead and a liar! Santa is real!
(This discussion goes on forever with all the iKooks joining in...)
iKook: You are an asshole. Liar! Liar... Liar... Pants on fire!

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 18, 2023, 9:27:04 PM1/18/23

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Newyana2 wrote:

> Thanks, everybody. I don't use cellphones much so I
> don't have experience with any of this. I do have developer
> mode enabled, for reasons I don't remember now.
>
> Kenny: No LAN. I don't want to get into that. I've got all computers
> configured for no networking, for security.
>
> Keith: Android 9. No luck with either system seeing the other via bluetooth.
>
> V: USB debugging didn't help. I also enabled something
> in there about allow sharing files. No luck. (I changed
> the name for personal reasons. Kind of a dumb name,
> but I wanted it to be recognizable to the regulars.)
>
> Paul: Sure enough, there's a microSD slot hidden under
> the back. A lot of good it does there! There's no slot
> for it in the cover. So... If I buy a microSD card and
> a reader to hook up to a PC, I could use the card (FAT32?)
> to load up PDFs and then I'll be able to see them in
> Android? I could then cut a hole in the cover and keep
> tape over it, to make the slot usable.

While I faithfully tried to help this "defeatist" supposed Android user who
posted this outlandish troll thread essentially saying that he's the only
one on the planet who can't get a USB cable to work with Android, I suggest
others responding take note this is most likely yet another Alan Baker
thread.

His entire intent is to be defeatist about the simplest things about
Android (like copying files between Windows & Android, which is trivial).

He's acting like it's a huuuuuuuuuuuuge deal, in this post, for example, to
do something as trivial as inserting a $20 card into the sd slot.

Classic iKook.
a. Claim to have a problem that nobody has
b. Throw defeatist hurdles into _every_ suggestion
c. Then claim that if it was the iPhone, it would all "just work"

Just watch.

He hasn't gotten to the point of his intended pre-planned payload, which is
he will claim that "I'm leaving Android forever" and "going to Apple".

It's classic.
They do this once a month or more.

The intent isn't to waste our valuable time trying to help them, but more
to their goal, their intent is to complain about Android not working for
the simplest things (which everyone knows works just fine), and then, the
payload is _always_ that they're giving up in frustration on Android.

And moving to Apple.
Because Android so very much frustrates them.

Like their claim they have to "cut a hole" in the case to insert the sd
card, which, they're so childishly low IQ, they don't even realize how
ridiculous they sound as they are desperate to sound defeatist on Android.

What they really hate, by the way, is this datapoint compiled just today:
*0% of iPhones have key modern hardware capabilities - while from 66%*
*to 78% of Android phone have that key modern hardware functionality*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/vLB-bIF-P5Q>

Seconds after that was posted, guess who the first person to post?
Yup. Alan Baker.

To the fact that three quarters of all current Androids have the headphone
jack and three quarters have the sdcard slot and two thirds have both,
Alan Baker hated those facts, writing...
"That's not a modern feature, nor is there any "standard"
about what sort of headphone jack a smartphone should have. "
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/vLB-bIF-P5Q/m/Xb3P7w_2DQAJ>

What drives these low IQ uneducated iKooks is, as a result of their
inability to process facts like an adult, they _believe_ all Apple
propaganda.

Which is fine - but as a result of being called stupid their whole lives,
they own low self esteem - which Apple products allow them to regain.

But then they lose their self esteem when the truth about Apple comes out.
It's a vicious cycle for them because of the confluence of three traits:
a. Low IQ & no education, and as a result, they can't process facts
b. As a result, they believe everything Apple leads them to believe
c. To the point that they deny all facts that don't fit into their
purely imaginary belief system about their supposed "superiority"
of what is clearly a crippled product line, compared to Android.

And _that_...

_that_...

_That!_ is what the iKooks hate.

The iKooks are like stunted bullies who believe Santa Claus marketing.

Joerg Lorenz

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Jan 18, 2023, 10:17:37 PM1/18/23

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Am 19.01.23 um 00:09 schrieb Carlos E.R.:

Guess why.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Joerg Lorenz

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Jan 18, 2023, 10:19:08 PM1/18/23

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Am 19.01.23 um 01:50 schrieb Newyana2:

You are liar and a nymeshifter.

Carlos E.R.

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Jan 19, 2023, 6:53:25 AM1/19/23

to

Yes, he is one.

I don't know about Outlook, but in Thunderbird you can disable
temporarily the filters and see what was there.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Ken Blake

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Jan 19, 2023, 9:16:10 AM1/19/23

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Outlook doesn't do newsgroups.

Carlos E.R.

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Jan 19, 2023, 10:03:18 AM1/19/23

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He is using Outlook. Check for yourself:

X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 19, 2023, 11:27:05 AM1/19/23

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Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> Outlook doesn't do newsgroups.
>
> He is using Outlook. Check for yourself:

There is value for everyone in the second half of this post.
Please skip to the words "Second half" to learn the answer to the question
asked in this thread.

The first half is trying to knock sense into Carlos & Ken Blake.

First half...

What I find interesting, and revealing, and yet disturbing is these two low
IQ uneducated trolls, Carlos and Ken Blake, have had this _same_
conversation seemingly dozens of times on how to simply plonk someone.

These two trolls have _never_ in the entire history of Usenet, ever added a
single iota of technical value to _any_ thread they've _ever_ posted to.

If they did, please point me to that thread they authored which added
technical value because I've seen their drivel for many years running.

My point here is these two trolls call _everyone else_ a troll, which is
fine, but then they endlessly bicker amongst themselves (usually bringing
Frank Slootweg in and a few others who aren't necessarily trolls even as
they don't add any value with this bickering).

All because they can't figure out something as simple as a killfile, which,
let's be clear, is NOT the topic of this thread or any thread they bicker
in.

If both the low IQ uneducated Carlos & Ken Blake stopped sending their
drivel to these newsgroups, the value would go up when they stop posting.

I'm not telling them to stop posting since anyone can filter them out, but
I am asking them to move their endless bickering about how to do something
as simple as a plonk to a thread of that specific topic.

And then they can _link_ to that thread whenever these two uneducated low
IQ trolls, Carlos and Ken Blake want to renew their endless bickering on
how to filter out any given poster.

Second half...

Back to adding value to the topic at hand, for the Windows and Android
users who do care to copy files between Android & Windows, I've done
_every_ single free approach ever suggested in this newsgroup and I've
written all that up many times.

You can _find_ those tutorials on the Android and Linux newsgroups but it's
much harder to find on the Windows newsgroups that are frequented.

Often I will post a summary tutorial to the WinXP newsgroup _because_ it is
archived in the deja Google "google groups" archives, and often I add the
one canonical Windows operating system newsgroup that is also archived.

Hence, if you do want to know how to copy files between Android and
Windows, seamlessly, and simultaneously with Linux perhaps, then use those
keywords ("seamless" "cross-platform" "tutorial" "copy files", etc.) in
your search of these autoarchives maintained by Google (previously
dejanews).

I _created_ these tinyurls before I complained to Google about their URLs:
<http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android>
<http://tinyurl.com/alt-os-linux>

After my discussion with Google, they _changed_ their long Google Groups
URLs to what I had suggested, which was exactly like the tinyurls I created
<http://groups.google.com/g/{name of Usenet group verbatim}

So, for example, to search the deja Google archives for Android, use this:
<http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>

To search the deja Google archives for the Windows newsgroup, use this:
<http://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows>

In summary, if you have an honest question of how to seamlessly copy
between Android and Windows, please ask and I and paul and others will help
you since we've done _all_ the approaches and we aren't stymied by the fact
that the OP feels the need to cut a hole in the back of the phone so as to
get access to the sd card (which is a hallmark of these iKooks' posts).
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to ask the morons to bicker about filtering
somewhere else, and still, to add value to help others with the question.

Char Jackson

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Jan 19, 2023, 11:54:32 AM1/19/23

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On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 15:58:05 +0100, "Carlos E.R."

The Microsoft naming committee claims another victim.

Outlook and Outlook Express are two different applications.

Carlos E.R.

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Jan 19, 2023, 12:09:49 PM1/19/23

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:-DDD

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Newyana2

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Jan 19, 2023, 12:45:20 PM1/19/23

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"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote

| >> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
| >
| > The Microsoft naming committee claims another victim.
| >
| > Outlook and Outlook Express are two different applications.
|
| :-DDD

I use TBird now for email, but OE is easy for usenet.
It's simple but also has filters. I don't like to enable
HTML, anyway, so all I need is a text rendering window.
I find all the color syntax highlighting more confusing
than helpful.

OE came with Windows from 98 through XP. It's a
surprisingly functional program for email and newsgroups.
Very lightweight. No limit on accounts. But it doesn't
handle encryption. Outlook is something I've never used.
I think it's more email and calendaring. For office people
who might otherwise carry an appt book.

Ken Blake

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Jan 19, 2023, 1:33:50 PM1/19/23

to

On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 15:58:05 +0100, "Carlos E.R."

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2023-01-19 15:16, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:54:33 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
>> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2023-01-19 01:50, Newyana2 wrote:
>>>> "Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>
>>>> | I checked. He is saying the truth. He got two non-answers from two chaps.
>>>> |
>>>>
>>>> Strange. I don't see any answers at all. I checked on AIOE, just
>>>> in case. No answers there. Maybe they were people I block. ("Andy
>>>> Burnelli" is also someone I block.) I never used to block anyone, but
>>>> I got tired of nonsense and rudeness, like this one telling me I'm
>>>> a liar.
>>>
>>> Yes, he is one.
>>>
>>> I don't know about Outlook, but in Thunderbird you can disable
>>> temporarily the filters and see what was there.
>>
>>
>> Outlook doesn't do newsgroups.
>
>He is using Outlook. Check for yourself:

No he's not. Outlook and Outlook Express are two very different
programs.

You're far from the first person to have mixed those two up. As is so
often the case, Microsoft has done a disservice to many people,
confusing them by naming two different things so similarly.

Joerg Lorenz

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Jan 19, 2023, 4:49:02 PM1/19/23

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Am 19.01.23 um 18:45 schrieb Newyana2:

> "Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote
>
> | >> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512
> | >
> | > The Microsoft naming committee claims another victim.
> | >
> | > Outlook and Outlook Express are two different applications.
> |
> | :-DDD
>
> I use TBird now for email, but OE is easy for usenet.
> It's simple but also has filters. I don't like to enable
> HTML, anyway, so all I need is a text rendering window.
> I find all the color syntax highlighting more confusing
> than helpful.
>
> OE came with Windows from 98 through XP. It's a
> surprisingly functional program for email and newsgroups.

Thanks to its noncompliance with standards this Outlook Excess is
completely disfunctional.

It would be much more acceptable to use TB for mail and usenet.

Joerg Lorenz

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Jan 19, 2023, 4:50:21 PM1/19/23

to

Am 19.01.23 um 19:33 schrieb Ken Blake:

Outlook Excess is out of service and support for over 10 years.

Tim Slattery

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Jan 20, 2023, 10:59:43 AM1/20/23

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Ken Blake <K...@invalid.news.com> wrote:

>No he's not. Outlook and Outlook Express are two very different
>programs.
>
>You're far from the first person to have mixed those two up. As is so
>often the case, Microsoft has done a disservice to many people,
>confusing them by naming two different things so similarly.

Yes, but it's not restricted to Microsoft. Netscape long ago renamed
their browser's scripting language "JavaScript" to capitalize on the
buzz around Sun Microsystem's Java language. The two are totally
different, but people have been confusing them ever since.

--
Tim Slattery
tim <at> risingdove <dot> com

Ken Blake

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Jan 20, 2023, 12:24:20 PM1/20/23

to

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:59:40 -0500, Tim Slattery <t...@risingdove.com>
wrote:

You're right of course--it's not restricted to Microsoft. However as
far as I'm concerned Microsoft has done it more than any other
company.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 21, 2023, 1:25:21 PM1/21/23

to

Paul wrote:

> I tried a number of experiments with Bluetooth, and sometimes
> I ended up Paired, but the stupid thing insisted on not
> being Connected,

Hi Paul,
You have immense hardware experience on Windows PCs that I don't have,
which I respect, so I want to let you know that I too tried all the (free,
ad free, login free) bluetooth methods ever suggested on this newsgroup.

They all work... for a while... and then they have issues... probably due
to me not understanding how Windows networking works (as they're mostly ad
hoc networks, as far as I can tell) - but I'm not a networking expert.

Certainly the OP isn't a networking expert either, so I don't suggest ad
hoc networks for the OP's issue. I suggest a known good data-enabled USB
cable.

I suggested that from the first post the op made on the Android newsgroup.

Having tested likely dozens of proposed (free, ad free, login free)
solutions for copying files back and forth between Windows/Linux & Android,
my suggestion for the simplest most reliable methods were, from the start:

1. USB cable (mtp, drivers, data-aware cable, etc.)
2. WebDav server (for mounting the Android filesys as a drive over Wi-Fi)

<https://i.postimg.cc/hjkVFyqJ/scrcpy07.jpg> Android mnt as drive lette

There are plenty of others; all of which I've tested, most of which I've
written tutorials for; but I said to the OP from the start that those two
methods are, in my humble experience, the simplest & most reliable.

--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information

which, in this case, is to always add technical value to this newsgroup.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 21, 2023, 1:47:37 PM1/21/23

to

Keith Nuttle wrote:

> As a general rule, I always let the device format any cards I use with
> that device. Many manufactures recommend doing formats this way. At
> least in the device I own.

*Below is a FANTASTIC valuable simple hint - from Paul - from years ago!*
<https://i.postimg.cc/gcKXV6F7/webdav16.jpg> Use a PC to name the sd card!

Most people likely won't understand the sheer beauty of the recommendation
below, mostly because they don't manage their file system all that well.

<https://i.postimg.cc/wvsbcNBz/scrcpy05.jpg> Drag APK from Windows

What I do, and which Paul taught me to do years ago, is every new sd card I
get, I rename on Windows to 0000-0001 which makes the path on Android easy.

<https://i.postimg.cc/BvJdKWzt/webdav06.jpg> Both sdcards mounted

Otherwise, your first sd card is BZ2S-XE5W (example) which is impossible to
remember, and worse, _each_ sd card you get has a _different_ identifier.

<https://i.postimg.cc/9FJMKYch/scrcpy21.jpg> Windows Drive: === Android

The solution Paul suggested was simple...

For the past five years or so (ever since Paul taught me this trick), I've
been using the PC to name all the sd cards 0000-0001, which has the
advantage that they're portable among Android phones with the same name.

<https://i.postimg.cc/cJLK1wt0/webdav07.jpg> Mount the entire filesystem

Lately, with the sd cards becoming huge, I have started naming them in
sequence, such as 0000-0001, 0000-0002, 0000-0003, etc. since my approach
now is to fill them up and then place them taped onto a piece of cardboard.

<https://i.postimg.cc/BQyRxCN9/webdav11.jpg> Mount sdcards read & write

In addition, I put NOTHING on that sd card in the polluted locations that
Android creates. I create my own directory (e.g., 0001) and then anything I
want to put on that card goes into MY WELL ORGANIZED HIERARCHY in 0001.

<https://i.postimg.cc/yYWwgGmy/webdav12.jpg> As Windows drive letters

Likewise with the 0000 directory on the internal storage card (sdcard0).

<https://i.postimg.cc/tTmdgKTB/scrcpy02.jpg> An efficient program setup

Once in those two locations (0000 & 0001), the hierachy is exactly the same
as it is in my data directory on my PC - which is the same for all PCs.

<https://i.postimg.cc/QtbR1GY0/webdav13.jpg> Over Wi-Fi on your home LAN

Just as the menu hierarchies are the same on Android & Windows, so is the
data hierarchy, the rationale being you do the same thing on both
platforms.
<https://i.postimg.cc/N0G1TXcZ/scrcpy01.jpg> Menus are the same for both

--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information

which, in this case, is to provide excellent hints for naming sd cards.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 21, 2023, 1:55:43 PM1/21/23

to

Paul wrote:

> There's no drama involved.
>
> I just checked, and fat32format will be fine.

Hi Paul,

I need to thank you...

Years ago, you had suggested I format and _name_ my sdcard to something I
can remember, because if you let the format name the card, you get
gibberish.

<https://i.postimg.cc/yYWwgGmy/webdav12.jpg> format as 0000-0001

So I've been naming them 0000-0001 ever since you had suggested that
fantastic trick to make all the sd cards more portable in Androids.

<https://i.postimg.cc/QtbR1GY0/webdav13.jpg> Same easy filespec always!

As shown in that illustrated screenshot, if I need the full filespect to
the internal sdcard, it's easy as it's /storage/emulated/0 always.

<https://i.postimg.cc/gcKXV6F7/webdav16.jpg> You always know the filespec!

Better yet, the external storage sd card is always /0000-0001 which is
easy to remember, and which doesn't change between sd cards & phones!

Thanks for that trick as I've read every one of your posts and I learn from
each of them, simply because you, like me, care about people & are detailed
in your responses (you and I both often illustrate our posts
fantastically).

Thanks!

--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information

which, in this case, is to thank Paul for his helpful technical suggestion.

Paul

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Jan 21, 2023, 2:04:25 PM1/21/23

to

The last status report I saw, he is able to copy now.

So "mission accomplished, with the usual Tracphone flair" :-)

Paul

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 21, 2023, 2:10:16 PM1/21/23

to

MajorLanGod wrote:

> I run WiFiLanServer on my Windows machine, and it's corresonding program
> WiFi PC File Explorer on my phone.

That's interesting that you're running a _server_ on Windows, and the
client on Android, as I usually do the opposite with Wi-Fi PC-Android
(where Windows natively has a client that handles mounting over Wi-Fi).
<https://i.postimg.cc/cJLK1wt0/webdav07.jpg> Nothing needed on the PC!

It's not easy finding that WiFiLanServer you speak of though:
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=wi-fi+lan+server+download+windows>

DuckDuckGo ran out of pages before it found the canonical site.

This isn't likely the canonical site, but it's all that DDG found:
<https://www.downloadsource.net/1773131/wi-fi-lan-server/>

If I wish to test this WiFiLanServer, do you have a URL to the installer?

Likewise with the Android APK, which is just as hard to find it seems:
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=wifilan%20server&c=apps>

Do you have a pointer to the Android APK also, so we can test it out?

> It is strictly a one-way process.

The method I use (nothing on Windows, a server on Android) works both ways.

Wi-Fi can read/write Android filesystems _better_ than can USB (IMHO).
<https://i.postimg.cc/BvJdKWzt/webdav06.jpg> Wi-Fi read/write PC/Android

> I have not found any waay to download or upload files beteen the two
> systems, but Andreoid will use whatever program you select to open the
> file on the windows system for reading.

I'm not sure if you were specifically stating that the method you use
doesn't allow back and forth (read and write) file transfer between Windows
and Android - but certainly most methods allow both read and write.

Generally, if your Android phone isn't rooted, you can only read the system
partition (e.g., you can read/copy the Android hosts file) though.

But you can always read and write to the user partitions.
<https://i.postimg.cc/yYWwgGmy/webdav12.jpg> Read/write to/from PC/Android

> I suppose you could cut and paste
> but haven't needed to try that. As far as I can tell it only operates
> withing the address space that the server is on. If I want to move a file
> to or from my phone I plug in a USB cord connected to my windows system
> and copy it that way.

While USB is both read and write, I find that WebDAV over Wi-Fi is actually
more powerful because you can mount the (normally hidden) system partition.
<https://i.postimg.cc/QtbR1GY0/webdav13.jpg> Wi-Fi more powerful than USB

--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information

which, in this case, is to explain Wi-Fi can read/write better than USB.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 21, 2023, 2:14:35 PM1/21/23

to

Newyana2 wrote:

> I figured that I was just ignorant of cellphone workings,
> but it looks like part of the problem is that no one uses them
> offline, so it's a largely unexplored area, with largely
> unprovided technology.

Why is it that nobody but this OP has a problem with sd cards, when all you
do with them is (a) buy them, (b) open the package, and (c) insert them
into the phone.

There is no formatting necessary.
It just works.

Given I expected this from the start, the only thing still missing from
this purposefully insanely defeatist Apple troll, is the claim that "it
just works" on Apple iPhones (which isn't true, by the way).

On the iPhone, "It doesn't exist."

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 21, 2023, 2:24:42 PM1/21/23

to

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> The phone will know best what it needs.

Carlos, (or anyone who is discussing formatting the sd card)...
Are you _sure_ the phone even needs to format a brand new sd card?

As I recall, the process is harder to open the damn shrink-wrapped plastic
package (which is a thousand times larger than the sd card is) than it is
to get it to work in the Android phone.

Here's the "difficult" part of the process, as I see it:

1. You weed your way through traffic to get to Costco.
2. You wait on line to buy the 256GB card for about twenty bucks on sale.
3. You weed your way through traffic to get home.
4. You find a box cutter and you cut open the package <-- *hardest step!*
5. You generally turn off the phone (but you normally don't have to)
6. You open the back of the phone (or you push out the side tray)
7. You insert the brand new sdcard into that internal or side tray
8. You put the back on the phone & power the phone up.

Voila!
It just works.

Does it not?
*Why do you need to format the brand new sd card?*
--
Note I'm not saying you can't format the sd card if you want to.
But I am saying that in my experience, you do not need to do it.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 21, 2023, 2:42:10 PM1/21/23

to

Paul wrote:

> The last status report I saw, he is able to copy now.
>
> So "mission accomplished, with the usual Tracphone flair" :-)

Hi Paul,
Thanks for that update as I'm slowly wending my way through the posts,
as I gave up on this thread but when I saw you had posted, I always
look at your posts for added value (which you always add, as do I).

What I love about you, is you do what I do, which is you pour your
heart and soul into helping people, and in doing so, you teach the
rest of us (who wish to learn from you).

In fact, I just downloaded the formatter you recommended, so here are
the relevant URLs (because my goal always is if I do the work, then
others should be able to follow me with _less_ effort than it took me to do).

Here is the output of your suggestion with that "less effort" added a bit.
Thanks for suggesting this particular formatter, although I wonder why
formatting even matters given sdcards work in Android out of the box.

-----< begin log file for the Ridgecrop FAT formatter >-----
*Fat32 is pretty simple, so it occurred to me to write a fast format routine to do the job.*
Note that the 32GB limit is a limit of the formatter in Windows XP.
FAT32 itself should be OK to 2TB, limited by a 32 bit sector count in the boot sector.
<https://web.archive.org/web/20200424145132/http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?fat32format.htm>
<http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?fat32format.htm>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20200410224838if_/http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/download/fat32format.zip>
Name: fat32format.zip
Size: 23501 bytes (22 KiB)
SHA256: 812A33F01C7D73A1E4B89427C01B6BF967DC8D8EF3671200F381B130356B3068
Extracted to a single file:
Name: fat32format.exe
Size: 49218 bytes (48 KiB)
SHA256: D5320A127374AF23139730F0D01AEE8195E5FE15B63C35D48D80930ABBF7F5CB

*Windows GUI version of fat32format*
<https://web.archive.org/web/20200410225115if_/http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/guiformat.htm>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20200410225128if_/http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/guiformat.exe>
Name: guiformat.exe
Size: 77824 bytes (76 KiB)
SHA256: 647FB4F5108AF632C3D52FEC34934922C50C70585697504E92FB80B3B7D05EE3
-----< end log file for the Ridgecrop FAT formatter >-----

--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information

which, in this case, is to add value for Paul's suggested fatformatter.

The Real Bev

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Jan 21, 2023, 2:46:44 PM1/21/23

to

On 1/21/23 11:24 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> The phone will know best what it needs.
>
> Carlos, (or anyone who is discussing formatting the sd card)...
> Are you _sure_ the phone even needs to format a brand new sd card?
>
> As I recall, the process is harder to open the damn shrink-wrapped plastic
> package (which is a thousand times larger than the sd card is) than it is
> to get it to work in the Android phone.
>
> Here's the "difficult" part of the process, as I see it:
>
> 1. You weed your way through traffic to get to Costco.
> 2. You wait on line to buy the 256GB card for about twenty bucks on sale.
> 3. You weed your way through traffic to get home.
> 4. You find a box cutter and you cut open the package <-- *hardest step!*
> 5. You generally turn off the phone (but you normally don't have to)
> 6. You open the back of the phone (or you push out the side tray)
> 7. You insert the brand new sdcard into that internal or side tray
> 8. You put the back on the phone & power the phone up.
>
> Voila!
> It just works.
>
> Does it not?
> *Why do you need to format the brand new sd card?*

If you want it to act as an extension of memory (a mistake I made --
didn't work anywhere near as well as I expected) as opposed to a simple
repository for files, the phone will reformat the card so it can't be
used as a repository any more. I suppose you can create a subdirectory
on it to store pictures etc., but I didn't try that. You certainly
can't take it out of the phone and insert it into a reader on your
computer any more.

--
Cheers, Bev
______________________________________________________
"Parasites plus suckers do not add up to a community."
-- Thomas Sowell

Carlos E.R.

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Jan 21, 2023, 3:27:50 PM1/21/23

to

They all do...

I was tricked once when buying a modem "compatible" with V90. It did not
have V90 in hardware, it needed a driver in the operating system, which
meant it only worked in Windows, and I waas double booting
Linux/Windows. The wording on the box was clever: compatible. This time
I was lucky and a coworker bought it from me, and I bought another one,
an usr robotics that I still have somewhere. The trick was making sure
it was external, via rs232 cable.

Years before they tricked me with another modem that I think did 28800
or 30something, but it only worked with its own "terminal" application,
and not with the Fidonet software I used (it wen down to 9600 or
14something). I don't remember what "compatible with" wording they used.

I hate this. I had forgotten, but these things leave a mark.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R.

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Jan 21, 2023, 3:32:58 PM1/21/23

to

On 2023-01-21 20:46, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 1/21/23 11:24 AM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> The phone will know best what it needs.
>>
>> Carlos, (or anyone who is discussing formatting the sd card)...
>> Are you _sure_ the phone even needs to format a brand new sd card?

Sometimes, yes. The phone doesn't like the format the card comes in. And
it may not be a new card.

>>
>> As I recall, the process is harder to open the damn shrink-wrapped

...

>> Voila!
>> It just works.
>>
>> Does it not?
>> *Why do you need to format the brand new sd card?*
>
> If you want it to act as an extension of memory (a mistake I made --
> didn't work anywhere near as well as I expected) as opposed to a simple
> repository for files, the phone will reformat the card so it can't be
> used as a repository any more. I suppose you can create a subdirectory
> on it to store pictures etc., but I didn't try that. You certainly
> can't take it out of the phone and insert it into a reader on your
> computer any more.

Yes, of course. And if I remember correctly, the OP wanted to use the
card to exchange files with the computer. The USB cable method was not
working, but that was because it was a 2 wire only cable. Or that was
another thread :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 21, 2023, 3:51:00 PM1/21/23

to

The Real Bev wrote:

> If you want it to act as an extension of memory (a mistake I made --
> didn't work anywhere near as well as I expected) as opposed to a simple
> repository for files, the phone will reformat the card so it can't be
> used as a repository any more.

Hi The Real Bev,

It's always good to discuss thing with you as you're eminently pragmatic.
Yes. But no. Not really. In practice anyway. Not for most of us, that is.

With primary storage being large nowadays, who bothers with adoptable
storage (aka extended storage)? Not me. The cons outweigh the pros.

BTW, see below... you can format USB thumb drivs as expandable storage.

> I suppose you can create a subdirectory
> on it to store pictures etc., but I didn't try that. You certainly
> can't take it out of the phone and insert it into a reader on your
> computer any more.

Like you, I deprecate extended (adoptable) sd card storage in favor of the
more portable (external) sd card storage but the point is you can do a lot.
<https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/n843in/psa_you_can_do_a_lot_more_with_adoptable_storage/>

Notice you can make 1/4 of an sd card one type and 3/4 the other type.
"Hey! I just recently figured out some cool stuff you can
do with adoptable storage. I'm here to share.
You can actually do 50% portable and 50% internal storage
with your SD card! adb shell and then sm list-disks adoptable.

Then do something like sm partition <DISK ID> mixed 25
to have 25% portable storage and 75% private storage.

*You can format even USB drives as expandable storage.*
Turn sm set-force-adoptable on and then you can make any drive
have your apps on them.

Don't ask me if that 2/3rds can be put in other phones or PCs though.
Does anyone know the answer to _that_ esoteric question?

--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information

which, in this case, is to expound on the nature of expandable sd storage.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 21, 2023, 3:59:37 PM1/21/23

to

Carlos E.R. wrote:

>>> Carlos, (or anyone who is discussing formatting the sd card)...
>>> Are you _sure_ the phone even needs to format a brand new sd card?
>
> Sometimes, yes. The phone doesn't like the format the card comes in. And
> it may not be a new card.

Hi Carlos,

Fair enough. Thanks for that answer. I've used, oh, I don't know, a dozen
or more sd cards in my Android phones over time & all just worked for me.

The only reason I format a brand new card is to name it 0000-0001 so that I
don't always have to look in my file manager when I need a full filespec.

Admittedly a full filespec isn't often needed, but it is needed sometimes.
For example, some of the WebDAV servers _require_ a full filespec.

Also the daemons that move files around for me (like PDFDistiller used to
do years ago) the moment they appear on Android also require filespecs.

These programs are useful to move things that go into the "wrong" location,
as defined by you, for example, "Screenshots" that don't go into "DCIM".

That full filespec is also needed often when you're messing with Android
intents and activities - both of which are deeper into the code than most
people get. <https://i.postimg.cc/3wSkPHnV/intent06.jpg>

In summary, I agree that sometimes a format might be needed just for the
phone to recognize a card even as that has never happened in my phones.

However, I format _every_ card anyway, just to change the name to something
that I know what it will be years in advance of me ever needing that name.

--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information

which, in this case, is to follow up politely with Carlos on the question.

Andy Burnelli

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Jan 21, 2023, 4:22:15 PM1/21/23

to

Carlos E.R. wrote:

>>| I didn't know about that. Is there any way to tell?
>>| I just have a short micro-to-USB cord. (About 8". I
>>| don't know where I got it.) I don't seem to have any
>>| other microUSB to USB cables, or devices, thugh I
>>| might have a camera I can test it with.
>>|
>> That was it! Thanks. I tried the cable for charging,
>> instead of my mystery patch cable, and it now works
>> fine.
>
> Gosh.

Just saying that this thread, from the start, has all the hallmarks of the
classic Apple iKook troll where their modus operandi is always the same.

a. We've been discussing on the iPhone newsgroup how crippled the iPhone
is in terms of lack of ability to use external sd card storage.

b. That's something most people on this newsgroup won't know - but I know
it - and what has been happening is ALL THE SAME EXCUSES that came up
in this thread were used by the Apple iPhone owners to excuse the fact
the iPhone is crippled (they tell us sdcard storage is unreliable).

c. Then... this "new" name pops up - asking a question - but the defeatist
attitude was evident from the start - in that everything was a problem.

d. As just one example of the pre-planned defeatist attitude, the OP cried
and wailed about how difficult it was for him to insert the sd card.

Then the op wailed incessantly about teh format that was never needed.

On and on, the OP wailed about non-existent hurdles he wsa fabricating.
In the end, i knew how it would result since it is _always_ the same.

e. Fast forward to now, where two dozen people waste their valuable time
to help the OP when the OP never had a problem in the first place.

*It was all made up.*

The only reason the OP didn't get to the punchline of "Apple just works"
is simply because I outed him at the start - so it wouldn't fly after that.

Then he only needed to string all of us along for his fabricated ride.
If he is to be believed, he's not only a moron, but he didn't even try.

Alan

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Jan 21, 2023, 4:30:12 PM1/21/23

to

On 2023-01-21 13:22, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>> | I didn't know about that. Is there any way to tell?
>>> | I just have a short micro-to-USB cord. (About 8". I
>>> | don't know where I got it.) I don't seem to have any
>>> | other microUSB to USB cables, or devices, thugh I
>>> | might have a camera I can test it with.
>>> |
>>> That was it! Thanks. I tried the cable for charging,
>>> instead of my mystery patch cable, and it now works
>>> fine.
>>
>> Gosh.
>
> Just saying that this thread, from the start, has all the hallmarks of the
> classic Apple iKook troll where their modus operandi is always the same.
>
> a. We've been discussing on the iPhone newsgroup how crippled the iPhone
> is in terms of lack of ability to use external sd card storage.

Why is it you must double-post these things, Arlen...

...aside from your obvious narcissism.

Paul

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Jan 21, 2023, 8:40:06 PM1/21/23

to

A 56K modem, does 53.3K in one direction (because the volume
won't go high enough on a phone line, to make it to 56K),
while in the other direction it is only 33K. It's not
actually "56K" in both directions. But I suppose we should
look at the V.90 and V.92 articles, for the details.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V.92

"V.92 is... a modem standard allowing
near 56 kb/s download and 48 kb/s upload rates.

With V.92, PCM is used for both the upstream and downstream connections;
previously 56K modems only used PCM for downstream data [upstream 33K].
"

The reference to PCM, is the practice of doing digital backhaul,
which allows "perfect signal transmission" to get to the
terminating equipment. This reduces the length of cable running
in analog mode (potential for SNR improvement).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ITU-T_V-series_recommendations

"V.90 is an ITU-T recommendation for a modem, allowing
56 kbit/s digital download and 33.6 kbit/s analog upload.

It replaced two vendor standards (K56flex and X2) and was
designed to allow modems from both prior standards to be
flash upgraded to support it.
"

Other details, include the difference between a "WinModem"
(which is little more than an ADC and a DAC, for a phone line),
versus a modem that has a DSP datapump and processes the
frequency bins, as soon as the analog signal is turned into
digital form.

In many ways, there are similarities between dialup modems
and DSL modems. In that, they both have frequency bins, and
if a particular bin is "disturbed" by a loading coil,
the modem does not use that bin and uses the other bins
instead. On a dialup modem, after a session ends, you
can dump SNR information on the bins and figure out whether
a bin or two are not delivering the goods.

Back in the K56 and X2 era, we had issues such as
"the Spiral of Death", where the modem is willing
to negotiate down the rate used, but refuses to dial
it back up. The modem will keep reducing the datarate,
until the connection state changes to "dropped" and
the modem hangs up :-) And that is the Spiral. This is
why you would keep both a K56 and an X2 modem, and
"use the one that works" :-)

Are the nightmares coming back yet ??? Yes,
they were good times. 5KB/sec good times.

Paul

nospam

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Jan 21, 2023, 9:30:37 PM1/21/23

to

In article <tqi45k$2r2sb$1...@dont-email.me>, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
wrote:

> A 56K modem, does 53.3K in one direction (because the volume
> won't go high enough on a phone line, to make it to 56K),

that was only a limitation for k56flex due to crosstalk.
v.92 could do 56k.

> while in the other direction it is only 33K.

true for v.90, but not for v.92, which replaced v.90 and had a faster
uplink.

> It's not
> actually "56K" in both directions.

nor does it need to be, since nearly everyone uses more downstream
bandwidth than upstream.

> But I suppose we should
> look at the V.90 and V.92 articles, for the details.

yes we should.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V.92
>
> "V.92 is... a modem standard allowing
> near 56 kb/s download and 48 kb/s upload rates.

yep.

> Back in the K56 and X2 era, we had issues such as
> "the Spiral of Death", where the modem is willing
> to negotiate down the rate used, but refuses to dial
> it back up.

no we didn't. anyone who experienced that had a misconfigured modem or
other issues.

> The modem will keep reducing the datarate,
> until the connection state changes to "dropped" and
> the modem hangs up :-) And that is the Spiral. This is
> why you would keep both a K56 and an X2 modem, and
> "use the one that works" :-)

those are two incompatible standards and one could not just switch to
the other on a whim.

sms

unread,

Jan 22, 2023, 10:28:59 AM1/22/23

to

On 1/21/2023 12:25 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

> I was tricked once when buying a modem "compatible" with V90. It did not
> have V90 in hardware, it needed a driver in the operating system, which
> meant it only worked in Windows, and I waas double booting
> Linux/Windows.

I remember WinModems aka soft modems. Reduced cost because Windows
performed the DSP functions with the x86 processor. There were also HP
inkjet printers like that, where Windows sent a bit map to the printer
and the printer didn't support PCL or Postscript.

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Jan 22, 2023, 2:14:34 PM1/22/23

to

Yes, those.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Paul

unread,

Jan 22, 2023, 2:41:59 PM1/22/23

to

The shocker for me, is I was evaluating two dialup solutions,
hoping to "prove" that the USR datapump modem was "worth the money".
I compared the WinModem DSP code to the USR with its datapump,
and the WinModem managed to get 1% more thruput than the USR.
I even repeated the test (back and forth), just to be sure
it wasn't an anomaly and it was repeatable.

The canon of the time, was that the USR was "always better"
in contests like this.

The hard part of WinModem, was the finding of that magical driver.
It did take me a while to dig that one up.

Paul

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Jan 22, 2023, 4:02:34 PM1/22/23

to

For me the choice was unique: I needed to double boot, I needed the
modem to also work in Linux. So winmodems were out, plain simple.

Something to compare was the cpu load on the computer. Did you check
that? I'm curious.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

nospam

unread,

Jan 22, 2023, 4:13:11 PM1/22/23

to

In article <knk0ajx...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> For me the choice was unique: I needed to double boot, I needed the
> modem to also work in Linux. So winmodems were out, plain simple.

<http://www.linmodems.org>

still best to avoid them, but they could be used with linux.

> Something to compare was the cpu load on the computer. Did you check
> that? I'm curious.

it was noticeable. the main problem was if the process crashed, the
connection dropped, versus a real modem which would maintain the
connection while the computer rebooted, and in some cases, could
resume.

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Jan 22, 2023, 5:06:23 PM1/22/23

to

On 2023-01-22 22:13, nospam wrote:
> In article <knk0ajx...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> For me the choice was unique: I needed to double boot, I needed the
>> modem to also work in Linux. So winmodems were out, plain simple.
>
> <http://www.linmodems.org>
>
> still best to avoid them, but they could be used with linux.

Nah.

>
>> Something to compare was the cpu load on the computer. Did you check
>> that? I'm curious.
>
> it was noticeable. the main problem was if the process crashed, the
> connection dropped, versus a real modem which would maintain the
> connection while the computer rebooted, and in some cases, could
> resume.

I just remembered once when (I figured out later) the external modem had
hung, and was trying non stop to send something to the computer, hung in
a loop, generating too many IRQs. These were attended to by the init
process in Linux, making it so busy (attend IRQ and discard) that the
machine could basically do nothing, even after a reboot. It was the
modem which needed a reboot.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Stan Brown

unread,

Jan 23, 2023, 8:58:44 AM1/23/23

to

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:24:50 +0000, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Carlos, (or anyone who is discussing formatting the sd card)...
> Are you _sure_ the phone even needs to format a brand new sd card?
>
> As I recall, the process is harder to open the damn shrink-wrapped plastic
> package (which is a thousand times larger than the sd card is) than it is
> to get it to work in the Android phone.

That was my experience on a Motorola e5+ with Android 8.0.

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown

unread,

Jan 23, 2023, 9:04:06 AM1/23/23

to

+1

Indeed yes: Outlook versus Outlook Express, Windows Mail versus
Windows Live Mail versus Windows Live Hotmail, and of course Remote
Desktop and Remote Desktop Services. There are lots of other
examples, but those are the three that occur to me right off the bat.

sms

unread,

Jan 23, 2023, 9:17:09 AM1/23/23

to

On 1/23/2023 5:58 AM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:24:50 +0000, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> Carlos, (or anyone who is discussing formatting the sd card)...
>> Are you _sure_ the phone even needs to format a brand new sd card?
>>
>> As I recall, the process is harder to open the damn shrink-wrapped plastic
>> package (which is a thousand times larger than the sd card is) than it is
>> to get it to work in the Android phone.
>
> That was my experience on a Motorola e5+ with Android 8.0.

If you're using the MicroSD card as extra storage for files (videos,
photos, music, videos, maps, etc., then no formatting is necessary.

If you're using it for extended memory for the Android device then it
needs to be formatted by the phone.

wolfgang kern

unread,

Jan 23, 2023, 9:52:48 AM1/23/23

to

On 23.01.2023 15:17, sms wrote:

> If you're using the MicroSD card as extra storage for files (videos,
> photos, music, videos, maps, etc., then no formatting is necessary.

That has been my experience with SanDisk cards which work in Android no
matter how they're formatted at the factory. Android accepts them all.

What's the best format for Android is a better question to be asking.

> If you're using it for extended memory for the Android device then it
> needs to be formatted by the phone.

Nowadays, the internal storage is bigger & cheaper than it was long ago.
Have you ever known anyone to use the SanDisk cards for extended memory?

What would you guess the percentage of Android owners who extend memory?
I'm guessing from 0% to 1% (if even that much) but maybe you know better?

Ken Blake

unread,

Jan 23, 2023, 10:06:29 AM1/23/23

to

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 06:04:06 -0800, Stan Brown
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:24:18 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:59:40 -0500, Tim Slattery <t...@risingdove.com>
>> wrote:
>> >Yes, but it's not restricted to Microsoft. Netscape long ago renamed
>> >their browser's scripting language "JavaScript" to capitalize on the
>> >buzz around Sun Microsystem's Java language. The two are totally
>> >different, but people have been confusing them ever since.
>>
>>
>> You're right of course--it's not restricted to Microsoft. However as
>> far as I'm concerned Microsoft has done it more than any other
>> company.
>
>+1
>
>Indeed yes: Outlook versus Outlook Express,

Don't forget Outlook.com.

Paul

unread,

Jan 23, 2023, 12:40:41 PM1/23/23

to

https://www.reddit.com/r/raspberry_pi/comments/ex7dvo/quick_reminder_that_sd_cards_with_wearleveling/

Particularly unbelievable, is some of the endurance numbers here. OMG!

https://documents.westerndigital.com/content/dam/doc-library/en_us/assets/public/western-digital/collateral/brochure/brochure-removable-flash-storage.pdf

size 4GB to 64GB
endurance Up to 3200 TBW

That's six times better than any flash storage device I own,
and at 8 times less capacity, or 48 times the endurance of
anything I own. Which means roughly, it has to be SLC versus TLC
(100000 versus 3000 writes or a factor of 33 roughly). Micron
does make SLC, but previously I could not find it being vended
to anyone. Only the spec sheet was visible.

So yes, based on (unbelievable) marketing information, there are
actually SD you could use to extend memory. The devices with
no endurance values listed, are also the ones unlikely to
have wear leveling. And I like in the PDF, how the devices with no endurance
specs, are all the ones with "variable warranty protection" <wibble!>

When I build a house, I always use Jello for the foundation...

Paul

The Real Bev

unread,

Jan 23, 2023, 8:18:10 PM1/23/23

to

On 1/23/23 6:52 AM, wolfgang kern wrote:
> On 23.01.2023 15:17, sms wrote:
>
>> If you're using the MicroSD card as extra storage for files (videos,
>> photos, music, videos, maps, etc., then no formatting is necessary.
>
> That has been my experience with SanDisk cards which work in Android no
> matter how they're formatted at the factory. Android accepts them all.
>
> What's the best format for Android is a better question to be asking.
>
>> If you're using it for extended memory for the Android device then it
>> needs to be formatted by the phone.
>
> Nowadays, the internal storage is bigger & cheaper than it was long ago.
> Have you ever known anyone to use the SanDisk cards for extended memory?

Me, but I'm not sure it was a SanDisk. It was a mistake I won't make
again even if I have a slot for an SD card.

> What would you guess the percentage of Android owners who extend memory?
> I'm guessing from 0% to 1% (if even that much) but maybe you know better?

--
Cheers, Bev
"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

wolfgang kern

unread,

Jan 23, 2023, 11:49:53 PM1/23/23

to

On 23.01.2023 20:18, The Real Bev wrote:

> Me, but I'm not sure it was a SanDisk. It was a mistake I won't make
> again even if I have a slot for an SD card.

Since you can't tell the quality of an sd card by the price, I never buy
anything other than the SanDisk cards and I usually get UHS-3 or better.

For a phone, Class 10 or UHS-1 is probably fine but I don't buy anything
other than UHS-3 or V30, although if I get a good price on V60 or V90, I'll
buy it also but at their prices, they're overkill for an Android phone.

My point on the extended memory is that nobody uses is anymore because
there isn't as much of a need to expand the internal memory anymore.

People use it mostly to store their photos, which it's perfect for.
Plug it in, and the camera app asks "want me to use it?" and you say yes.

If you want to use it in another phone or another PC you can easily plug it
in because it's portable (which most people don't seem to understand).

Thinking it's only for extended memory is the wrong way to look at it.
But I'm still curious what FORMAT most people think is best for Android.

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Jan 25, 2023, 7:51:48 AM1/25/23

to

On 2023-01-24 05:50, wolfgang kern wrote:
>
> Thinking it's only for extended memory is the wrong way to look at it.
> But I'm still curious what FORMAT most people think is best for Android.

That's up for your phone to decide.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

sms

unread,

Jan 25, 2023, 10:29:06 AM1/25/23

to

On 1/23/2023 8:50 PM, wolfgang kern wrote:

<snip>

> But I'm still curious what FORMAT most people think is best for Android.

exFAT for use as storage for files.
Whatever the phone decides if it's for extended storage for Android.

wolfgang kern

unread,

Jan 25, 2023, 12:02:14 PM1/25/23

to

On 25.01.2023 15:29, sms wrote:

>> But I'm still curious what FORMAT most people think is best for Android.
>
> exFAT for use as storage for files.
> Whatever the phone decides if it's for extended storage for Android.

Thanks. In Windows you can select "properties" but in Android 12, how can
you tell the type of the format of the sd card that is already inserted?

I went into Settings > Battery and device care > Storage & Memory
and in the Developer options is also a Memory section but that's RAM.

Google is wrong because a threedot menu for Android 12 Samsung is gone.
https://support.google.com/android/answer/12153449

Googling shows the threedot menu in Android 11 but not in Android 12.
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/248011/how-do-i-format-my-sd-card-on-my-android-12-samsung-phone

I tried a couple of sd card apps but they didn't tell me the format.
They were just gathering benchmark scores (check the settings).

Is there an app to check the sd card format ON the phone?

sms

unread,

Jan 25, 2023, 12:26:16 PM1/25/23

to

If you put a new card into a computer and it can see the file system
then it's exFAT (or FAT for a 32GB or less card).

I have never seen an Android app that tells you the format of an SD card.

wolfgang kern

unread,

Jan 25, 2023, 1:14:05 PM1/25/23

to

On 25.01.2023 18:26, sms wrote:

>> Is there an app to check the sd card format ON the phone?
>
> If you put a new card into a computer and it can see the file system
> then it's exFAT (or FAT for a 32GB or less card).
>
> I have never seen an Android app that tells you the format of an SD card.

Since Android 11 reports the format, why did they remove it in Android 12?

To be clear, mine say it's exFat when I put it in Windows but I am curious
why Samsung removed the ability to see the format in Android 12 settings.

I will look at some of these apps but I already tried the WD Sandisk one.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=format%20sd%20card&c=apps

Carlos E.R.

unread,

Jan 25, 2023, 2:22:52 PM1/25/23

to

On 2023-01-25 19:14, wolfgang kern wrote:
> On 25.01.2023 18:26, sms wrote:
>
>>> Is there an app to check the sd card format ON the phone?
>>
>> If you put a new card into a computer and it can see the file system
>> then it's exFAT (or FAT for a 32GB or less card).
>>
>> I have never seen an Android app that tells you the format of an SD card.
>
> Since Android 11 reports the format, why did they remove it in Android 12?
>
> To be clear, mine say it's exFat when I put it in Windows but I am curious
> why Samsung removed the ability to see the format in Android 12 settings.

Because a lot of (technical) information confuse normal people ;-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.